(Introduction)(Dial.1)(Dial.2)(Dial.3)(Dial.4)(Dial.5)(Dial.6)(Dial.7)(Dial.8)DIALOGUE 9(Dial.10)

(Dial.11)(Dial.12)(Dial.13)(Dial.14)(Dial.15)(Dial.16)(Dial.17)(Dial.18)(Dial.19)(Dial.20)

ABOUT SALVATION

DIRTY_C: Can I carry on sinning if I am saved?

CLEAN_C: What are you saved from if you carry on sinning?

DIRTY_C: I thought I would never go to hell if I am saved, even if I sinned. Being saved for me means I am going to heaven to live with God forever. It must be a wonderful experience! I would hate myself if I ever got lost. I think I would blame God as well.

CLEAN_C: Well, I think you don’t have the correct vision about salvation at all. What kind of salvation is this that saves only from hell? Genuine salvation saves us from sin.

DIRTY_C: You want me to be fully honest about this?

CLEAN_C: I wouldn’t want anything else!

DIRTY_C: Sometimes I feel certain doubts about this whole issue of being saved. I can’t think of myself as saved sometimes. I don’t know, but it bothers me greatly. There are strong doubts that hit me hard. The worst about it all is that I don’t know how to answer back to those doubts. Some days I really doubt that I will ever sing in heaven with the angels and live around there forever.

CLEAN_C: If even people who are right with God can be hit by a sharp arrow of poisonous doubt, how much more those who aren’t right with God! However, in case you don’t enter heaven, it shall be only because you have not been saved of something else here on earth. There must be some sin from which you have not been saved if you go to hell. We cannot afford to die in our sins. Hell is not what we are saved from. Hell is just the place where unsaved people will go to and heaven is the place where already saved people shall go. Hell is a horrible place of inner emptiness. If, however, we are indeed saved from sin and self, there is nothing hell can do to rob you out of heaven!

DIRTY_C: You believe I have solid reasons to have these doubts?

CLEAN_C: If we doubt when we need to doubt - if we doubt a lie for example - surely those kinds of doubts are good. Those doubts are faith. A heart which believes truth causes us to doubt lies easily. However, we cannot doubt about what is truthful. If you can doubt lies, you are a believer.

DIRTY_C: What do you mean by that? If I doubt, how can I be a believer?

CLEAN_C: A liar or a sinner shall always breed doubts concerning truth and shall have a tendency to rely upon lies. A truthful, saved man shall be the opposite of that: he shall believe truth and be doubtful every time a lying arrow hits his heart.

DIRTY_C: How so? This is a little confusing to me.

CLEAN_C: Whoever believes truth easily will doubt any lie just as easily. It will depend what kind of heart we have and whether we walk with God or not. I can agree that a doubt towards any lie isn’t yet a firm stand against it. But, it is a good thing to be able to doubt a lie. Doubting, however, is wavering and wavering can cause us to balance between two thoughts – sometimes, opposite thoughts! One can say that at least doubting a lie is not the same as believing it. Neither is it the same as doubting a truth.

DIRTY_C: The only thing that happens to me is that I fear to be deceived about many things. Suppose I believe I am on my way to heaven and when I come to judgment day I am thrown out? I wouldn’t want that! 

CLEAN_C: I understand. However, even if I understand what you mean, it is true that if truth abounds in you, if God’s life overflows from inside, you can’t possibly breed doubts in your heart concerning heaven and hell. You will just know where you are headed to, and by living with God in the proper fullness takes all fear away. It is good that you are aware of these doubts now. It gives you some time to fix your life the way you should fix it. You cannot remain in those doubts any longer. The assurance God gives is much stronger than doubts. On the other hand, if you are drowning at sea you cannot breed doubts towards the dry tree or the board that is floating nearby or even hits your head. You must be able to trust what comes to rescue you. You cannot doubt it only because it hits you.

DIRTY_C: How could anyone have doubts if a board hits you at high sea?

CLEAN_C: That is what I have been trying to put through to you. You cannot doubt God and neither His words only because they hit you. The Bible says, “Yet they did not listen to Me, nor bow down their ear, but hardened their neck”. “I struck you … yet you did not turn to Me, says the Lord…”. “For the people do not turn to Him who strikes them, nor do they seek the Lord of Hosts”. It is good that you breed doubts against drowning, but not against the board. In fact, you should ask yourself if drowning in sin is what you have been created for. Can you afford to walk on with a stained conscience having Jesus so close by to cleanse you thoroughly? Why resent the conviction of loss if you are not clean yet? Unclean people are lost people and lost people should feel lost and not assured.

DIRTY_C: Now you are aiming at me again. It seems every time I say something you seek to turn my own words against me. I like talking to you, but every time I go from you I have more doubts and fewer assurances. Your attitude also annoys me.

CLEAN_C: I am sure you would feel assured were your heart and life clean and spotless. You cannot afford to carry on living without making sure about what God has to say about your life. Can you? There is no reason for you to carry on doubting about these matters. I am forced to believe there are certain things you hold on to; or which you will not give up for the sake of eternal life; or maybe you are afraid to reveal certain sins to people and God. It seems to me the kinds of doubts you are having are not mere temptations to doubt truth. It seems it is a deeper problem, a serious one. I usually say it is a root problem. I think your house is crumbling down because its foundations are very weak. If a tree has problems in its roots you cannot look at it the same way as when it has a problem in its leaves only. A sickness in the roots of a tree is very bad and kills the tree. You might have a root problem.

DIRTY_C: What do you mean it seems I have a root problem?

CLEAN_C: The kind of salvation Jesus planned for us does not deal with our external problems only. It solves many things deep within us. Jesus Himself said, “Blind Pharisee! First cleanse the inside of the cup and of the dish, so that the outside of them may be clean also”, Mat.23:26. When our deepest being is treated, surely the appearances shall also change naturally. However, you cannot afford to change the appearances only. It is possible to change appearances only. Jesus will call you a hypocrite if you do that! However, if your heart becomes truthful, it is obvious your mouth shall be taken to express itself in a truthful way as well. The problem must be dealt with at the roots of our being. It is there where the first healings must occur. Only then may we ever think of applying the new life outwardly, even if there is a way to do that. The fact is that unless God dwells deep in us, our being becomes sick because it cannot live without God and without His fullness. And if we hide any past sin; or hold on to any present sin; or fear to ask for forgiveness to anyone whatsoever, God shall be absent from our inner being. And our inner being changes only by having God very close to it. If we cleanse our lives thoroughly, God shall return to His throne, which is our hearts.

DIRTY_C: But, don’t we have bad roots since Adam’s sin? How can it be healed?

CLEAN_C: We are still what God created us to be. The knowledge of sin and evil, the experiencing of it in everyday life is what takes many people to believe we are no according to God’s image anymore. However, I believe we are like a mill. If we put stones in a mill, it shall grind stones and we get sand; if we put wheat and corn in it, it shall grind wheat and corn. Our hearts work much the same way. Besides, man is evil only because Goodness (God) has left him. If God returns into us in His fullness, surely things start changing again. This is why God says “Come back” when He talks about repentance. It is the absence of God which turns man evil.

DIRTY_C: I understand. You mean that if God is far off, then we shall believe lies because we are liars by trying to live on as if nothing serious happened by having God absent. Is that what you mean?

CLEAN_C: Yes, in part that is what I mean. Because you cannot think of yourself as a liar, you shall not plead guilty at the judgment your conscience sets up against you. The fact that people believe the best things about themselves only shows they have been created with goodness inside them. For example, people never think they shall ever die either. They don’t live as if they can die the next moment. It so happens because people have been created with the notion of eternity inside them. “He has made everything beautiful in His time; also He has set eternity in their heart”, Ecc.3:11. However, sin has taken over the creation that man is and is using it against him. Man is lied unto by his own heart. This is why faith can’t be mere believing, but rather believing truth. The natural ability to believe must be turned into ability to believe truth.

DIRTY_C: I think I understand what you mean.

CLEAN_C: In other words, you may find yourself to be a reliable person, a truthful being and, yet, you might be lying to yourself. Many postpone confessing their sins because they simply don’t believe they can die or that they are bad. People live as if they won’t die right away. That is why we should attend funerals sometimes. It shall make us wise. Man simply postpones, avoids or fights against exposing His own sins and will rather highlight others’ sins and the dangers they incur. Man just doesn’t believe the same things concerning himself. Man just can’t think he is the one who must get saved. In fact, we must expose our sins, failures and whatever needs to be lighted. We should be transparent all the time, whether we are good or bad. Hiding was the first instinct Adam and Eve had. So, exposing must be the first thing we must do to get saved and fully restored. Sin, when hit by a powerful light simply dies on the spot along with its guilt. No sin is ever able to resist death if it is thoroughly and fully exposed. And if temptations to sin come, we must know sin won’t survive in a heart which is naturally transparent and cleared.

DIRTY_C: You mean, I must put everything in the light to have a chance to overcome every killer in me. I must do the opposite of what Adam did.

CLEAN_C: Yes, that is what I mean. And if you do the opposite of what Adam did, you can no more say you are like Adam, can you? Then, by the fruit that sort of life bears we shall assuredly know we are saved for sure. I agree it is rather strange to people at first, especially to those who have never lived in the light that way, by being themselves all the time. It could happen that they resent light in the first stages of that life. It is not easy to live naturally in a kind of way you are not used to and which you do not wish to trust. “Also, no one having drunk old wine immediately desires the new, for he says, ‘The old one is better’”, Luke 5:39. But, the lack of experience of goodness in man does not justify the rejection of it. Saul ended up in hell long after he had experienced the fullness of God.  

DIRTY_C: What is the new wine and the old wine Jesus talked about here?

CLEAN_C: Christ uses a figure of speech to explain better what really goes on inside a man upon whom light has shined suddenly. It is talking about the old ways man has been used to and the new ways he must drink from by starting to be fully obedient. Christ talks about it as something that is really inside us and from which we must drink. It is something that is really there and does not need to be forced to be there. Any conduct should always be a mere expression of those inner realities that go on inside man.

DIRTY_C: I understand. In you view, it is wrong to put on a smile on our face if our hearts are not smiling. You mean it is wrong to force ourselves to be something we aren’t for real. Is that it? Is it so wrong? My pastor says we must try harder and harder when we cannot love the right way.

CLEAN_C: It is bad enough to be a hypocrite. However, if you are pure inside, there won’t be anything wrong with trying to live it out fully. However, it is not the same as forcing a conduct you should have naturally. Lying about what we are is what sin is all about. If you are sinful, you must show what you really are. At least the great shame it brings upon you might cause you to seek out a solution for your sin. However, we should never be ashamed to reveal our hearts fully if God is really at work in us. God renews us every moment we spent near Him and we should be able to trust the work is trying to accomplish within us. Before being transformed, our minds have been thinking the way darkness and hiding pressed upon us. Darkness is very demanding upon lost souls. It makes people weary and tired. But, as soon as God starts to work in us, we should renew our minds to gain some other points of view concerning the whole issue. Our ways should change. We need not hide anymore. Everything is new. We should reconcile ourselves with a new reality which we do not need to hide as before. We should feel at home with that. We should never again become ashamed to show and to reveal what is going on inside our hearts. Before light came to shine on us we tried to be good or to look good while our hearts were bad. It tired us out because it was always a stressful matter. It’s hard work. It’s hard because we had been figuring out ways to conceal ourselves or to look our best so we wouldn’t be rejected. If God changes us for real from deep inside our hearts, then trying to be good when we can easily afford to be ourselves is also a kind of strain. It amounts to lying as well. Imitating goodness when we have no need to do so anymore stands as the other woman for a married man. The new nature God gives us does not allow us to lie about ourselves anymore. It just doesn’t work and it can’t be blessed. It means we are waiting for or trying to fabricate something we already have inside for free. It is a gift from faith.

DIRTY_C: Is that the will of God for every person in this world? Everyone should be that new?

CLEAN_C: Yes, of course. None should be anything else but new. And the expectation of hope causes us to be changed from within rather than to force ourselves to appear changed on the outside only. Water flows naturally. The New Life also flows just as naturally. No works shall ever achieve the perfection of being ourselves while in Christ for real. That kind of expectation to receive from the Lord what he is will cause us to fly high and be so light we won’t feel any yoke on us anymore.

DIRTY_C: I am stunned with the amount of things you are saying that make so much sense to me. So, what is salvation all about then? I don’t wish to be confused about this because my pastor does not have the same views you have. My head is whining and I am wavering between two different points of view. There is some knot in my mind I am unable to untie that easily.

CLEAN_C: Someone said once all we need to do to have that knot untied, is to sit still so God can work freely and unhindered. Then shall we come to the conclusion that He is God indeed. Anyway, Jesus warned that you might not love the new wine at first. And one of the reasons for us not to like the new wine at first is to have a higher regard for the opinions of someone we respect than we have about God’s. You should make an effort at first to drink that wine. Later on it shall become natural to you to do so. Your spirit shall agree with it sooner or later. Obedience makes our hearts assured about truth. Obeying lies causes the opposite effect on us. Don’t allow the old mind and the old ways to distract your mind with deriving thoughts and doubts. If you can try to do that and to put it all into practice, you shall easily know how easy it is to fulfil God’s laws and commandments. “If your eye (the way you see things) causes you to stumble, pluck it off and throw it far from you”.

DIRTY_C: I will try!

CLEAN_C: It seems that God saves people who already consider themselves as His people. It says in the Bible God saves “His people” from sin.

DIRTY_C: What do you mean? Aren’t His people already saved ones?

CLEAN_C: You sound like Nicodemus asking things which should already be easy for you to understand at this point! When the angel appeared to Joseph, the husband of Mary, he said God would save His people. We also read that Jesus so loved the world that whosoever believes in Him should not get lost. It means they should be saved after that and not get lost.

DIRTY_C: And why does the Bible says God came to save the whole world? Does it mean I still belong to the world? Or do I still need to be saved?

CLEAN_C: Jesus is able to save the whole world. But, it does not mean the whole world shall be saved, since we are saved from the world itself. We are saved from it. That shall happen if we become His people. Then God takes us from there into full salvation.

DIRTY_C: What does Jesus save us from then? Oh, the knot is getting bigger! It seems you don’t allow me to think I am already saved – not even for a moment!

CLEAN_C: I agree people have many strange views about the whole issue. Some of these views are even based upon what they understand of the Bible. It is not what I am saying that is confusing you at all. The thoughts you had about it is what is confusing you mostly. But, we need to listen to God for a change.

DIRTY_C: Please, carry on. Don’t worry about the knot in my mind. I will try to be quiet so it loosens a bit.

CLEAN_C: If you enquire from the Lord about this, you shall hear the same things in a better way. You shall hear about it in a way you shall easily understand. Then, it shall be a confirmation for you of what I am trying to tell you. Jesus teaches us for real. You should rely on that and have faith. There is no pastor like Him. Fulfillers of the Bible often believe the Bible does not need interpreters or interpretations. The truth shall be understood easy enough by anyone who obeys promptly. The Bible shall make sense to them.

DIRTY_C: Ok, I got you. You are trying to tell me I should obey no matter what. You are aiming at me again. I understand. It is true I don’t always understand the Bible very well and neither am I in a state to obey it promptly. Maybe you are right. I should be obedient to it rather than be a mere enquirer after truth. It feels good to me to question everything you say because I can understand it better afterwards. You explain better when I molest you.

CLEAN_C: I am so glad you question everything!

DIRTY_C: Please, explain more to me.

CLEAN_C: I will try. It is very easy to taste truth. May God help us. Let us see if God is able to untie the knot you have made.

DIRTY_C: I surely hope He can!

CLEAN_C: First of all, Jesus saves those who already believe on Him. It means He saves His people. If you believe a synagogue or a church more than Him, it is not the same as believing Him. It can’t be.

DIRTY_C: But, the churches talk about God, don’t they?

CLEAN_C: Surely they do. It is only expected that they do. The unexpected part is the devil is allowed as a member in most churches nowadays. He takes people to dance, to flirt and to believe whatever they want. Jesus said “Follow Me”. He did not say follow a certain doctrine or a specific church. Unless you follow Him for real, you won’t make it. You might even follow Him into a church, but you can never afford not following Him.

DIRTY_C: I see.

CLEAN_C: Concerning salvation and having in mind that only those who believe in Him can be saved of any kind of sin or temptation in the present and in their future, we must secondly ask what He saves from. We should never dare to merely accept that general, undefined kind of salvation of our minds. Jesus saves from sin. He saves believers from sin. We shall be made free by experiencing what He is. That truthful reality shall make us free of anything – of any kind of bondage one can think of! The order of events is: faith and then freedom and salvation. If the whole idea of being saved should ever start to make sense to any of us, we should see for ourselves what Jesus indeed saves from. The salvation He offers is a unique kind of salvation from self, from the world and from sin. We cease to be slaves through the knowledge and the experiencing of Jesus and truth. That shall happen only through a genuine experience of the fullness of God Himself. He needs to be inside us for real and also to walk with us as we eat, sleep or talk. Whatever we do should be done through Him.

DIRTY_C: Where in the Bible we read it is from sin we are saved?

CLEAN_C: In many places of it. I believe that is the issue that the Bible most talks about. In the beginning of the New Testament we read about it expressly: “He shall save His people from their sins”, Mat. 1:21. Our sins are the things we need to be saved from. They are responsible for the lack of inner peace, for the lack of love, for the lack of faith and even of hope. If we are not saved from all our sins, we shall always be doubting and lifeless.

(Introduction)(Dial.1)(Dial.2)(Dial.3)(Dial.4)(Dial.5)(Dial.6)(Dial.7)(Dial.8)DIALOGUE 9(Dial.10)

(Dial.11)(Dial.12)(Dial.13)(Dial.14)(Dial.15)(Dial.16)(Dial.17)(Dial.18)(Dial.19)(Dial.20)